I caught up with Phil Passera (one half of Payfone along with with Jimmy Day) in December 2023. The chat veered around from the depressing nature of 1930’s suburbia, the dangers of Lego, DNA testing, Luna the dog, household hygiene, more dogs and the dangers of supporting lower league football teams. Meanwhile Hugo (whose house Phil was at) did some cleaning in the background. We also covered reading habits, plus plans and next moves for Payfone. We started though by chatting about his current home…
[Ed - Before we start a funny story. Paul Apiento here. I first met Phil in the late 90s when he was part of a band called Kitty Bronx who were really funny fuckers and basically were like proto Avalanches. I was doing A&R at Junior Boy’s Own and we signed a deal. To sum up Phil (and Simon the other member) they were like ‘can we put a camel on the cover (I said ‘course, do what you want within reason’) and then they added liner notes that read ‘Kitty Bronx are Phil Passera and Sonny Baxter. This record has been produced using an age old method, whereby by the vinyl has been allowed to move of its own free will, across meadows, through a hotel and into a sack. Good Luck.’ This tells you a lot about Phil. I also met him for coffee years later as it's always a good chat and he had a box set DVD collection of Columbo. Also very Phil. Anyway, on with the program…]
Paul
How did you end up in Barcelona?
Phil
Okay, that's an interesting one. I had been to Brazil a couple of times on a few DJ trips and fell in love with the place. And then I started to visit Barcelona, and I felt that the two places were very similar… Like some parts of Rio. I've been around other parts of Brazil and you couldn't possibly live anywhere else there because Brazil is mad and dangerous. But I came to Barcelona a few times and I didn't realise it has a huge South American community especially in areas like Poble Sec.
Paul
What were you doing in South America? DJing?
Phil
I was DJing in a few places and it was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And, yeah, I fell in love. I was like ‘imagine living here??’ But then I got back to the UK and after my second visit to Barcelona I was like, well, I can't live in London anymore. So I convinced my girlfriend at the time that we'd go and give it a go in Barcelona. We then had a son in Barcelona. My son, Otis. He loves music and it's great. He doesn't love football though and that's fine. As long as he likes either football or music, then I'm happy as then I've got something to connect with him in the same way. The only thing I can connect with with my dad is that we talk about football. I think with life, all you need with anyone is one thing in common.
Paul
So it's been ten years since the first release. Is that what prompted the compilation?
Phil
The plan is to release a compilation in February which is just a digital re-release online. All the releases bar the Leng ones.
Paul
And anything new on top of the old stuff?.
Phil
There's two new songs. A song called ‘Confession of a Queen’ featuring Barbara Alcindor and another one with an American singer called Morley. It sounds a bit like Cat Power or something. We were doing a remix for Morley and then it was like, hang on a minute, let’s just take a vocal and do something new with it. We've done it as a co-write, and it's a song called ‘Wasted On You’.
Paul
You've worked with a lot of different vocalists. Is there anything you look for in particular?
Phil
It has to be a unique but classic voice. We have just been working with a new singer and it just felt like I'd always had her singing on stuff because she had this slight Scandinavian accent even though she's from Argentina!
The first couple of records we ever did had a Scandinavian singer called Katarina Holmberg (aka Tigerlight, who sang on 'International Smark') on them. She sings in a hybrid Finnish Swedish dialect. A regional dialect which really confuses people from Scandinavia. When they hear it, they love it, but they're like, what the hell is this doing on here? I guess it'd be the equivalent of having a song in Welsh/English or something.
Paul
So you are working on a new album?
Phil
Yes. On the new album, I've got a couple of big names and a couple of people who I love who aren't necessarily big names, but they're starting off. One of my favourite singers alive is a guy called Willis Earl Beal. He came out on XL Records 15 years ago. Honestly, this guy spent an hour convincing me that he was a witch. I think he's an outstanding talent and he's done something for me which is absolutely outstanding and is called ‘Moving on’.
An album will come out with nine or ten tracks split over to two sides and I'm coming to the UK for a month to mix the album. We're mixing it in Brighton and it's interesting because it's always the songs you don't expect that get a reaction. I've done it before where I've spent like a year making a record not played it to anyone and then put it out and was kind of a bit disappointed by the outcome. And then a year later, I'd hear it and I'd be like, ‘oh, I get it now. I get what's wrong with that song’.
As we talk a bit more the conversation moves to some of the protests that have taken place there and elsewhere recently about the situation in Palestine. Phil has very strong views on the conflict and has made a number of posts on Instagram about it.
Phil
As you can see, I am rather political.
Paul
I've noticed.
Phil
There was a Vice thing a few years back… ‘Political Disco’. Bringing politics back to dance or something like that. And I was like, well, that's cool. I've got no problem with that but when I made a record with Defected, one of the guys there was like, ‘look, we agree what you're saying, but you've got to stop posting the political things on Instagram’.
And also, someone I work with who I've now brought into Payfone, he's said the same thing. He's like, ‘you can't do this’. And I said, ‘well, you’ve probably got a point. I'm probably not helping my own career but I'm going to do it. I'm just going to do it’. Anyway, we should probably talk about music…
Paul
So where do you buy your records from, then? Do you still go digging in Barcelona?
Phil
I do. I mean, I usually buy in bursts and phases where suddenly I'm buying records again and I'm buying loads and then I won't buy any for, like, six months.
Paul
How often do you play?
Phil
I'm playing about once every two weeks now in Barcelona. Some places are great, some places not so good, but I'm doing it for a good cause. Because, honestly, the music that you hear out here, being played by young, cool people, is often terrible, in my opinion, very insipid house music. Empty, cold house that doesn't have any music in it.
I don't think people really enjoy this kind of music. I think they listen to it because other people listen to it and it sort of sounds like it should be cool. But the music is so polite that your auntie could easily put it on and do the hoovering. Not an ounce of rebellion or kind of gut in any of this. For me, it's like you want to hear singers like Tina Turner. You don't want to hear Cliff Richard. And this shit that I'm surrounded by. And I won't name names, right? Sounds like the electronic music equivalent of peak Cliff Richard.
Paul
What sort of gigs do you prefer, then? Do you play in clubs much or is it more that sort of more intimate type music?
Phil
Yeah, I don't do a lot of clubs. I've done a lot of clubs. I don't do them anymore. I Kind of realised the other day that Payfone stuff isn't really club music. I'd say it's what you listen to before or after going to a club. It's much deeper than dance music. And this new album has got so many songs on it. Like real songs. There’s a song called ‘Joan of Arc’, which I think is brilliant. It's a song. It's not a piece of dance music, it's not a piece of club music or anything.
Paul
So where do you see Payfone going?
Phil
Honestly, I think we might have just sort of crossed the line and I think we might now have a really big future. And I know this is going to sound insane, but yesterday or day before, we got that thing from Phonica records, right, Phonica did a 2023 best of, and it's probably their favourite song of the year!
The important thing is, it's Phonica, who are one of the most respected record shops in the world. I mean, think about it globally. There's probably a couple of places in New York, a couple of places in Berlin… A couple of places in Paris. For me, it's like getting the Rough Trade album of the year. That's the holy grail.
Paul
So who is Payfone currently then? It's you, Jimmy…
Phil
Yeah, it's me. It's my baby. I started the project with Jimmy. Ditched Jimmy after a year of banging my head against the wall. Five or six years later, Jimmy wanted to come back and we work together now. I still bang my head against the wall every day but he's very good at what he does and Payfone is very much better off having him in it than not.
Paul
So what's the dynamic between the two of you? How do you split responsibilities?
Phil
It's becoming more and more mixed up. Even though primarily I write the stuff and I write and I produce it. And then he takes the production to the next level and mixes it. I do steps one and two. He does steps three and four. And that's our sort of basic way of working.
But then, of course, he'll come up with something. He'll throw me a few guitar chords or something. And there's a song we're doing called ‘Slow Rider’ and that came about that way. He had something going on and I heard it and I was like, ‘I heard a song that had a different vocal on it’ and I said, give me the song. I got an idea and it's come on so well. So I'm currently singing it because it's a demo and we've got someone lined up. It's unbelievable. I've got a ‘pretty well known artist’ having a listen to it and she could carry this off. So she's definitely going to hear it. At that point, I don't know if anything will happen, but if you don't shoot, you don't score!
Paul
So is there anyone else out there that you'd like to work with then? Let's say past and present?
Phil
Willis Earl Beal, So obviously this is all for the second album that's coming out. Not the compilation. This is the exciting bit.
Paul
Is Willis the first male vocalist you've worked with?
Phil
No. Quite a few of our releases feature a Welshman called Lewis Howard Jones. He sings on ‘Paradise’, ‘Quarantine’ and ‘Day and Night’.
Paul
Okay, so I've got that completely wrong! How do you find the vocalists?
Phil
I go looking for them. I found a brilliant new singer called Rosa. She's doing two songs on the new album and she's going to be our live singer. She is awesome. And guess where I found her? I found her on Fiverr.
Paul
Really?
Phil
Yeah. I had an idea one day. I've had such a hard time with vocalists in the last three, four months. I've got a list of all the singers I've worked with of which we didn't achieve anything. All the singers who I spoke to and said wanted to do it and then just never replied.
Paul
How collaborative is it with the people you work with?
Phil
I prefer it if I just write it, but I'm always going to take on someone's opinion on board. But I haven't had a situation in a long time where I disagreed musically with anybody I work with. I’m in a really good spot at the moment where I've now met the personnel who I know can take this to the next level. A young bass player from North Carolina who I'm working with called Jo Harris, again, an artist in his own right, but it's like this guy, when he's on stage, he kills it.
Rosa from London, who's going to be singing, she came and did three days here and it was brilliant. A guy called Toro from Buenos Aires, Argentina, a keys player, guitarist and a songwriter. I brought him in to co-write the album with me, and we've done about five or six songs together and they're great. I'm really, really happy with it. And all these guys love Payfone and I feel like I've now got the people I need.
In dance music, people have careers on their own. It’s lonely, but it's efficient because they're not having arguments with themselves. Or if they are, they need to get mental help quickly, which they probably do need as well, because touring is horrible!
Paul
So is that the core touring band?
Phil
Absolutely, yeah. And it's going to be smoking.
Paul
And what's the plan, then? World tour.
Phil
World tour immediately! Like Pakistan, Chad, Belize. Porthmadog (!). It’s the far top left corner of Wales. Once I went there to rescue a vintage, giant cinematic sound system from an old cinema, my brother Lawrence renovated. Incredible. If I showed you photos of his studio, you wouldn't believe it. Looks like Frankenstein's laboratory, right? Anyway, the story I love about this is it's a cold morning in a tiny little town in Wales called Porthmadog. Me and my brother stayed at this hotel the night before. We're there with our big van and all we need now is, like, a bit of muscle. We need, like, five local builder lads, right, to come and help us move this things that’s like the size of four or more coffins put together. I don't know, the biggest wardrobe you've ever seen. Because these are bass baffles from 1935 or something. They're all in perfect condition, right? Because when they upgraded the sound system, what they did was they built a wall in front of all the old shit, right? It's all there, like the day it was built? Anyway, these builders come and help us. Takes about 20 minutes.
It's a bit of a ball ache getting this thing out into the street. And then my brother says, ‘Guys, thanks so much’. My brother pulls out a roll of banknotes and says, here, guys, thanks so much. And they say, ‘oh, no, we don't want your money’. And my brother's like, ‘oh, no, come on, take some money’. ‘No, it's okay, we don't need the money. We don't want the money’.
In the end, one of the kids is about 18. The rest of them were like grown men, like 40, 50 odd. And it was like an 18 year old kid. And I remember thinking quickly in my head, I remember thinking how much these old speaker units are worth. About ten grand, right? Of course, those guys have no clue. If my brother wasn't there grabbing them, they'd be thrown in a skip, right?
But there's people in Korea and Japan who will pay ten grand for one of those or more. Sometimes the figures thrown around are huge because think about it, there's like two or three of them in the world. And these systems cost $200,000 back in 1940. Huge amount. And they'd send them over on a ship with a team of engineers.
Anyway, the Welsh builders wouldn't take the money. And I thought, I basically grabbed some notes from my brother, grabbed the young boy's hand, I said, ‘buy everyone a drink tonight at the pub’. And I gave him like 40, 50 quid, right? And I said, my brother as we got in a van, can you imagine being in London and asking these builders to help you out? First thing they're going to say, ‘get lost, mate, ain't helping you out. We're busy!’.
Different world. And that's the difference between living in London and living in Barcelona and living in parts of Wales or some other parts of England. There is still a sense of pride.
Paul
Are you doing anything outside of Payfone? Doesn’t sound like you have the time!
Phil
Yeah. I'm actually producing an incredible talent from L.A. She's 21 years old and she's an absolute talent. I met her kind of, by chance, in Barcelona. There was a music event, an industry event, which we didn't know was an industry event. There's a girl called Simbi, this bass player. She was playing there. We were going there to see her. And I’m chatting to two women at a bar, and one of them turns out to be from L.A, and is one of the most talented musical originators I've ever heard. I think of her as Kate Bush, that kind of level. And she's such a joy to work with. We have a lot of fun. We make each other laugh. She jokes, I joke. It's great.
Paul
So a couple more questions. You can have anyone in your band from the past, you’ve talked about Andy Newmark a little bit in the past. Anyone else?
Phil
Love to have Andy Newmark on drums. I hope he's still alive. We lost contact, but I should call him! Royce Wood Jr on guitar. Or a guy called Lorenzo, who I'm now working with here, who's outrageous. Joe Harris on bass. I love the way he plays. Oh, we've got a saxophone player at the moment called Jordy. He's very good. Catalan guy. Yeah, very good.
Paul
How about vocalists?
Phil
Fantasy, oh, man, that's a big question.
Paul
You can have one male, one female. How about that?
Phil
Okay. Female Candy Staton in her sixties period. It's her sort of rhythm and blues stuff. Her voice then is untouchable, in my opinion. She sings a song called ‘That's how strong my love is’. And if that doesn't hit you…
As for male, I mean, it could be anyone from Tom Waits who I adore. Yeah, I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I adore him, to Lou Reed. Like Lou Reed stuff from Transformer. It's amazing. And he's a guy who couldn't sing. Whenever you see Lou Reed singing live, he's shit. I saw him live a few times. I even had the pleasure of walking alongside him in the BBC corridors. And I just happened to be dressed in black. And he was dressed in black. And I happened to exit a door. He came out the other door, I turned left, he turned right, and it's just me and Lou Reed coasting down the corridor at the same time. Ten minutes later, the same thing happens, going back the other way with four other guys all dressed in black. And me, dressed in black. And I never used to wear all black. And it's Metallica. And I'm now walking with Metallica. I'm now in the middle of Metallica by complete chance.
I was managing a band who were on Top of the Pops. Did a special thing where they didn't tell anyone because they didn't want the story to get out, where they had to film a bit of extra shit at the end of the show for the Christmas edition or something. And it was Lou Reed standing in front of me singing three of his biggest songs of all time. And I could touch him.
Paul
All right, I've got one more then. You've got one tune at the end of the night. What's it going to be?
Phil
I used to DJ at a brilliant bar in Whitechapel called Indo. And I used to do Saturday nights, 6 hours all vinyl. It was the most fun I've ever had DJing. And when you get it right, people are dancing on the tables. I would always end with Nina Simone. ‘My Baby Just Cares for Me’. When do you not enjoy listening to that song?
Paul
Perfect. That was really good. Nice to meet you.
Phil
Yeah, nice dude. Ciao.
The Payfone compilation is due for release in February with the new album to follow in June '24.
'I Feel You' is available via Leng's Bandcamp
Photo Credits : Landry A - mydogispolite.com - @landry__
